Abridgement of the Debates of Congress, from 1789 to 1856 (4 of 16 vol.)

Mr. Grundy stated what was his impression as to the course he should incline to pursue as a member of the Committee of Foreign Relations, if these papers should be referred as proposed, to that committee. If any engagements, express or implied, had taken place between the Administration and Mr. Henry, that he should be free from detention, &c., he should not, as one of the committee, consent to violate that engagement.

The question on reference was carried unanimously.

The question to clothe the committee with compulsory power was carried – 104 to 10.

Thursday, March 12

Mississippi Territory

The unfinished business of yesterday, the bill for enabling the people of the Mississippi Territory to form a constitution and State Government, being taken up —

Mr. Poindexter said, that on the general principles of the bill under consideration, he presumed there will be but little difference of opinion. The population of the Territory proposed to be erected into an independent State is unquestionably sufficient to authorize the measure agreeably to the present ratio of representation; and from the vast influx of emigration to that section of the Union since the last census, I am fully satisfied that it might be demanded as a matter of right under the compact with the State of Georgia. But, sir, the wise and magnanimous policy of the General Government has uniformly conferred on the respective Territories the rights of State sovereignty so soon as their numbers would fairly entitle them to one member in the House of Representatives of the United States. Ohio was admitted with a population of thirty-seven thousand souls. In the next Congress, that State will be entitled to six Representatives, besides a very large fraction which was thrown on her by the apportionment made during the present session. All the other new States received into the Confederacy since the adoption of the constitution, have grown into importance, and now constitute some of the firmest pillars in the Temple of Liberty. Permit me, Mr. Chairman, to express a hope, that while gentlemen delight to bask in the sunshine of freedom at home, they will on every occasion manifest their liberality and philanthropy, by extending its cheering rays to the remotest regions of our beloved country. Emancipate us from the trammels of colonial vassalage; place us on the high eminence of a free, sovereign, and independent commonwealth; and we shall at all times be ready, with our lives and fortunes, to assert the rights and vindicate the honor of our common country.

With respect to the limits recommended by the committee, including all that tract of country of which possession was taken by virtue of the Proclamation of the President of the United States, bearing date the 27th of October, 1810, there appears to exist a diversity of opinion. Some gentlemen think it improper to legislate definitely over that country, until the pledge given in the proclamation that it will in our hands be held subject to future negotiation, is redeemed in a manner satisfactory to the Executive who made it; and others wish to divide the country between the State of Louisiana and the State to be formed of the Mississippi Territory. To rescue this subject from the first objection, at a very early period of the session, I moved a resolution calling on the President for information on two points: 1. Whether there was any pending negotiation respecting our title. 2. Whether it was the wish of the Executive that the Legislative authority of Congress over the country should be suspended with a view to future negotiation and adjustment in relation to the claim of the United States. To this request the President has returned no answer. But without the aid of those lights which it is in the power of the Executive to shed upon the question, we all know that the downfall of the late Spanish Monarch, and the distracted state of revolution in which Spain is involved, renders it impracticable to recognize any legitimate authority with whom a negotiation could be conducted. It is true, several letters have passed between Mr. Secretary Monroe and Mr. Foster, the British Minister, during the recess of Congress, relative to our possession of West Florida, and the manner of taking it. On this correspondence it is not my intention at present to comment. It is a new proof of the disposition which Great Britain has always shown to intermeddle in the affairs of other nations, and the language of Mr. Foster is in the highest degree arrogant and insulting. Mr. Monroe, in his letter of the 8th of July, after repelling the insinuations made by the British Government as to the motives by which the President was actuated in taking possession of the country, declares "that by this event the United States have acquired no new title to West Florida. They wanted none." From this declaration it is evident that no doubt is entertained by the Executive as to the validity of our title, and therefore it is unnecessary to suspend for a longer period the admission of that country into the Union.

Mr. Poindexter then offered the following amendment:

"And be it further enacted, That the said State shall consist of all that tract of country contained within the following boundaries, to wit: beginning on the river Mississippi, at the point where the southern boundary line of the State of Tennessee unites with the same; thence along said line to its junction with the western boundary of the State of Georgia; thence along the said boundary to the thirty-first degree of latitude, and along said degree of latitude to a point opposite the river Perdido; thence to the junction of said river with the Gulf of Mexico, including all islands within six leagues of the shore to the junction of Pearl River with the Lake Pontchartrain; and up said river to the 31st degree of latitude; thence to the river Mississippi, and up the same to the beginning."

The question on this amendment was taken without debate, and carried.

Mr. Clay moved to add the following proviso, to follow after the section just adopted; which would have the effect to keep that portion of country taken possession of under the President's proclamation, subject to future negotiation:

"Provided, That nothing herein contained shall be so construed as to prevent that portion of the Territory comprehended within the said boundary, formerly composing a part of the country known by the name of West Florida, being subject to future negotiation on the part of the United States."

Mr. Clay (Speaker) said that in offering this amendment to the committee, he confessed he was actuated rather by a disposition to accommodate the views of other gentlemen, than from any difficulty which he felt on the subject himself; for, with respect to our title to West Florida, he thought it utterly impossible that any gentleman could examine that question without suffering other considerations to mingle in the investigation, and not be thoroughly convinced that the title was in the United States: and he confessed that were he to consult his own views only, he should not hesitate a moment in making an unqualified annexation of that territory to the States to be formed of the Orleans and Mississippi Territories. But as some gentlemen, adverting to the President's Proclamation for taking possession of that country, had supposed that some difficulty might arise under it from such a procedure, in order to quiet these apprehensions, he had submitted this proviso. The right of the General Government to destroy the integrity of a State having been questioned, it would be well to guard against any difficulty on that score by a reservation to the General Government of the power to negotiate on the subject of this territory. At the same time he made this proposition, Mr. C. utterly disclaimed the idea that in any possible state of things ought this country to be ceded away. He considered the possession of West Florida as indispensable to the interests and prosperity of the Western States, and so far to the integrity of the Union; and he should as soon see a part of the State which he represented ceded away as this territory. What, he asked, was the extent of the country in question? In breadth, about twenty miles; in length, about two hundred, binding to that extent our southern frontier. The danger of having provinces of a foreign power on our frontier is too well disclosed by the late communication of the President (concerning Henry's mission) – a disclosure which must combine in the execration of the project it developed, every man in the country, and every honest man in every country. Suppose the former dynasty of Spain to be reinstated on the throne, it could not desire, for honest purposes, the possession of West Florida. In proposing the amendment, Mr. C. said it was merely his object to make the acts of the Legislative body tally with the proclamations of the President. If, therefore, contrary to his firm conviction, it should be determined that we have not the title, he had no idea that even in that state of things the territory would be given up, but that an equivalent should be given for it.

Mr. C. said he fully approved the boundary established for the new State of Mississippi by the section just agreed to, so far as it operated on the Florida Territory. It gave to the State of Louisiana about three-fourths, perhaps four-fifths, of the population of the whole territory – a population homogeneous to the character of the country – American in principle and feeling; and with pleasure he had seen the convention of the Orleans Territory, in requesting this annexation, display a liberality of sentiment in desiring a further American population, which he trusted would be reciprocated by Congress. Although the State of Louisiana could not be gratified by the annexation of the whole territory, their desires would be gratified to a considerable extent by giving them all that portion of it lying west of Pearl River. The acquisition of the valuable settlements on the high lands, and their hardy population, would satisfy all the material wishes of the State. By this addition they would give to the new State of Louisiana the entire control of the Lakes Maurepas and Pontchartrain, by which the city of New Orleans may be most easily approached; you thus enable the State to take all necessary means to repel invasion. You effect another object, said Mr. C. There is not any very great natural connection between the people immediately on the bay of Mobile and Tombigbee River, and those on the Mississippi. If there be any connection, it is an artificial one, resulting from the preponderancy of capital at New Orleans, and will be lessened whenever there shall be a commercial capital at Mobile. I am therefore anxious to unite the territory east of Pearl River, including the bay of Mobile, to the Mississippi Territory, to which it is naturally connected; and, Mr. C. said, he had no hesitation in declaring that either Pearl River or the Pascagoula ought to be the boundary which is to separate the two parts of the country respectively to be attached to the States of Louisiana and Mississippi – the Pearl River, upon the whole, would be the best, as dividing the territory in about equal portions. Mr. C. concluded by expressing his satisfaction that this subject had been taken up, and that the amendment proposed by the delegate from Mississippi had obtained, which he hoped would finally pass, &c.

Mr. Rhea said that the amendment proposed by the honorable Speaker to him appeared strange. I, said Mr. R., do firmly believe that the title of the United States to the country west of the Perdido River, named West Florida, is good and valid to all intents and purposes; and, therefore, I will not vote for a proposition which will evince a doubt relative to the sufficiency of that title. But it is said that the proclamation of the President has declared the same principle that the amendment proposes. That may be, but that is no law; that proclamation is not law, nor is the Legislature of the United States bound by it, unless they intend to adopt a principle similar to that used in Great Britain, where the King and Council can issue an edict having the force of law. This principle ought not to be established under the constitution of this nation. But the domineering interference of the British Government relative to West Florida, if there was no other reason, ought to be cause sufficient to reject this offered amendment; that interference of a Government which has no possible right or title to the country in question, will be, in a manner, sanctioned by the offered amendment. On these three points, then, the amendment ought to be rejected: first, that it goes to shake the solidity of the title; second, that it goes to sanction an opinion, that a preceding proclamation of the President of the United States is obligatory on the Congress of the United States; and, third, that the amendment, if agreed to, will go to authorize an opinion that the domineering interference of Great Britain, in respect to the country in question, was right and proper. Against these points I will, said Mr. R., hold up my hand – and therefore will vote against the offered amendment.

Mr. Mitchill observed, that our minister who negotiated the purchase of Louisiana had been repeatedly told by Talleyrand, in the course of the negotiation, that the French intended to cede the country of West Florida; so that it had been not only purchased, but understood to have been purchased. His certainty of the completeness of our title was such, that he was unwilling to do any act which should recognize the existence of a doubt on the subject, and he was therefore opposed to the proviso. At the same time he had no objection to the amendment just agreed to; he was willing that the people on the Tombigbee and Alabama Rivers should have free access to the ocean, and thus do away all artificial distinctions which had been made by a foreign power whilst the territory had been in its possession.

Mr. Macon was well satisfied with the amendment proposed; for he could not have consented to vote for this bill without the proviso, or something like it. Hitherto this Government had done every thing it could to preserve peace. The embargo and all the restrictive measures had in view to preserve peace; and peace would always be best maintained by a due regard to public faith. If a territory be incorporated into a State, it was the opinion of Mr. M. that neither the President nor Senate have a right to give it up. It had never been understood by any party, under our constitution, that under the treaty-making power the President would cede one inch of a State. Convenient although the territory is to us, and though we have possession, and it is said no pledge has been given in relation to it, yet it appeared to him that the proclamation held out the idea that we held it until an opportunity was afforded for negotiating on equitable terms. Mr. M. said he was willing to acknowledge that he had not examined the title in the same manner as the Speaker and the gentleman from New York had done, so as to enable him to pronounce on it with certainty; but the title did not come into the question on the present point. Had we, when all the rest of Louisiana was surrendered to us, obtained possession of Florida? No, we had not. It appeared to have been at least a doubtful question whether we obtained a title to it or not. What had been stated by the gentleman from New York, of Talleyrand's declaration to our Plenipotentiaries, had not much weight, because a claim was now set up to it not by France but by the Spanish Government. The proviso under consideration, whilst it could not in any degree invalidate our claim, did away the objections in his mind to the proposed annexation of territory. If the territory was once annexed to the State, without reservation or condition, they might as well hereafter attempt to cede away Boston or Old Plymouth, as that Territory.

Mr. Wright spoke against the amendment at considerable length.

Mr. Clay replied; and Mr. Rhea rejoined:

When the question was taken on the proviso, which was adopted without a division.

The bill having been reported to the House, and the House having agreed to take up the same, an adjournment took place.

Friday, March 13

Mississippi Territory

The House resumed the consideration of the unfinished business, viz: the report of the Committee of the Whole on the bill for enabling the people of Mississippi Territory to form a constitution and State government.

The amendment changing the boundary of the Territory, &c., moved by Mr. Poindexter, together with Mr. Clay's proviso, were agreed to without a division.

The question on the bill being engrossed for a third reading was decided without debate – yeas 67, nays 39, as follows:

Yeas. – Willis Alston, jun., William Anderson, Stevenson Archer, David Bard, Burwell Bassett, William W. Bibb, Robert Brown, William A. Burwell, William Butler, J. C. Calhoun, Langdon Cheves, Matthew Clay, James Cochran, Lewis Condict, William Crawford, Roger Davis, John Dawson, Joseph Desha, Elias Earle, William Findlay, Meshack Franklin, Thomas Gholson, Peterson Goodwyn, Edwin Gray, Isaiah L. Green, Felix Grundy, Bolling Hall, Obed Hall, John A. Harper, Aylett Hawes, Jacob Hufty, John M. Hyneman, Joseph Kent, Abner Lacock, Joseph Lefevre, Peter Little, William Lowndes, Aaron Lyle, Thomas Moore, William McCoy, Samuel McKee, Alexander McKim, Arunah Metcalf, Samuel L. Mitchill, Jeremiah Morrow, Hugh Nelson, Anthony New, Thomas Newbold, Thomas Newton, Israel Pickens, James Pleasants, jr., Henry M. Ridgely, Samuel Ringgold, Jonathan Roberts, William Rodman, Ebenezer Sage, Ebenezer Seaver, Samuel Shaw, Daniel Sheffey, Richard Stanford, William Strong, George M. Troup, Charles Turner, jr., Robert Whitehill, William Widgery, Thomas Wilson, and Richard Wynn.

Nays. – Ezekiel Bacon, John Baker, Abijah Bigelow, Harmanus Bleecker, Adam Boyd, James Breckenridge, Elijah Brigham, Epaphroditus Champion, Martin Chittenden, John Davenport, jr., William Ely, James Emott, Asa Fitch, Richard Jackson, jun., Lyman Law, Joseph Lewis, jun., Robert Le Roy Livingston, James Milnor, Jonathan O. Mosely, Joseph Pearson, Timothy Pitkin, jun., Benjamin Pond, Peter B. Porter, Josiah Quincy, William Reed, William M. Richardson, Thomas Sammons, John Smilie, George Smith, Philip Stuart, Silas Stow, Lewis B. Sturges, Samuel Taggart, Benjamin Tallmadge, Uri Tracy, Pierre Van Cortlandt, jun., Laban Wheaton, Leonard White, and Robert Wright.

The bill was then ordered to be read a third time on Monday next.

Monday, March 16

British Minister's Disclaimer of all Knowledge of John Henry's Asserted Mission

The following message was received from the President of the United States:

To the Senate and House of

Representatives of the United States:

I lay before Congress a letter, from the Envoy Extraordinary and Minister Plenipotentiary of Great Britain, to the Secretary of State.

JAMES MADISON.

March 13, 1812

Washington, March 11, 1812.

The undersigned, His Britannic Majesty's Envoy Extraordinary and Minister Plenipotentiary to the United States, has read in the public papers of this city, with the deepest concern, the Message sent by the President of the United States to Congress on the 9th instant, and the documents which accompanied it.

In the utter ignorance of the undersigned as to all the circumstances alluded to in those documents, he can only disclaim most solemnly, on his own part, the having had any knowledge whatever of the existence of such a mission, or of such transactions as the communication of Mr. Henry refers to, and express his conviction, that, from what he knows of those branches of His Majesty's Government with which he is in the habit of having intercourse, no countenance whatever was given by them to any schemes hostile to the internal tranquillity of the United States.

The undersigned, however, cannot but trust that the American Government, and the Congress of the United States, will take into consideration the character of the individual who has made the communication in question, and will suspend any further judgment on its merits until the circumstances shall have been made known to His Majesty's Government.

The undersigned requests the Secretary of State to accept the assurance of his highest consideration.

AUGUSTUS J. FOSTER.

The Message having been read, was, on motion of Mr. Newton, referred to the Committee on Foreign Relations, and ordered to be printed.

Wednesday, March 18

State of Louisiana

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, on the bill for the admission of the State of Louisiana (now Orleans Territory) into the Union, and for extending the laws of the United States to the same.

The several blanks in the bill having been filled —

Mr. Poindexter observed, that it appeared to have been the sense of this House, when the bill for erecting the Mississippi Territory into a State was under consideration, that the portion of the territory taken possession of under the President's proclamation (known by the name of West Florida) which lies West of Pearl River, should be added to the State of Orleans. The constitution had provided that new territory might be added to the States with their consent. As it was not provided by the constitution which party should first assent, he presumed it was not material; and, as this appeared to be the proper moment for fixing the boundary, he was induced to offer the following amendment to the bill.

"And be it further enacted, That so soon as the consent of the Legislature of said State shall be given to the same, all that tract of country lying within the following boundaries, to wit: beginning at the junction of the Iberville, with the river Mississippi; thence through the middle of the Lakes Maurepas and Pontchartrain, to the western junction of Pearl River, to Lake Pontchartrain; thence up said river to the thirty-first degree of latitude; thence along said degree of latitude to the river Mississippi; thence down the same to the beginning; be, and the same is hereby incorporated in, and made a part of said State, and shall be governed by the constitution and laws thereof, in the same manner as if it had been included within the original boundaries of said State. Provided, nevertheless, That the title of the United States to said tract of country shall be and remain subject to future negotiation."

Mr. Dawson said this question had been agitated in the select committee, but it had appeared proper to them that this addition of territory should be made the subject of a separate law. If they went so far, they must go farther still into details. He thought it better that the law accepting the constitution should be as simple as possible.

Mr. Clay (Speaker) could not view the subject in the same light, he said, as the gentleman from Virginia; and although there had been a division of sentiment in the select committee, there certainly were some members of that committee in favor of the motion. But, could gentlemen imagine any difficulty growing out of making this section a part of the present bill, which would not equally arise if it were put in a separate bill? There could be no difficulty in either way; and in propriety, it appeared to him the course now proposed ought to be pursued. They were about to admit a new State into the Union. Should not the bill, which recognized it, present the whole limits of the State in one view, or would it be better to subject inquirers to the necessity of wading through two or three acts to find out the boundary of a single State? He hoped the motion would prevail.

The motion was agreed to, 47 to 25.

Mr. Clay said he observed there had been no ordinance passed by the convention recognizing the freedom of navigation of the Mississippi. He had no idea that under any circumstances, the Legislature of the new State would impede the navigation; but the object was one so dear to the people of the Western country generally, that he wished to place it beyond the possibility of doubt.

The amendment was adopted without a division.

Mr. Johnson said, that as the matter now stood, the population of the Florida Territory attached to this bill would, although they are to compose a part of the new State, be deprived of a voice in the passage of the first laws, which are always the most important under a new government, and in the choice of Senators in Congress, which would be attended with the greatest hardship, as the population had been unrepresented for some time past, and complained of various grievances. He, therefore, moved an amendment to the bill, to divide the territory to be annexed to Louisiana into two counties, to be called Feliciana and Baton Rouge, each to send one Senator and one Representative.