Two Dyaloges

Poliphe. Holde thy peas mã wolde to god there were no men that dyd more hurt in the world then swyne, bullockes, asses, and camelles. A mã may se many men now adayes more crueller then lyons, more rauenynge thê wolues, more lecherous then sparous, and that byte worse then mad dogges, more noysom thê snakes, vepers and adders.

Canni9. But nowe good Polipheme remembre and loke vpon thy selfe for it is hyghe tyme for the to laye a syde thy beastly lyuynge, and to be tourned from a brute and a sauage beast in to a man.

Poliphem9. I thanke you good neyghbour

Cannius. for by saynt Mary I thynke your counsayle is good/for the prophetes of this tyme sayth the worlde is almost at an end, and we shall haue domes daye (as they call it) shortely.

Canni9. We haue therfore more nede to ppare our selues in a redines agaynst that day, and that with as moche spede as maye be possible.

Poliphemus. as for my part I loke and wayte styll euery day for the myghty hande and power of christ.

Cannius. Take hede therfore that thou, when christ shall laye his myghty hande vpon the be as tendre as waxe, that accordynge to his eternall wyll he maye frayme & fashyon the with his hande. But wherby I praye the dothe these prophetes coniecture & gather that the worlde is almost at an ende.

Poliphe. Bycause men (they saye) do the selfe same thinge nowe adayes that they dyd, and were wont to do which were lyuynge in the worlde a lytle whyle before the deluge or Noyes floode. They make solempne feastes, they banket, they quaffe, they booll, they bybbe, they ryot men mary, wome are maryed, they go a catterwallynge and horehuntinge, they bye, they sell, they lend to vserie, and borowe vpon vserie, they builde, kîges keepe warre one agaynst another, preestes studie howe they maye get many benefyces and promociõs to make them selfe riche and increase theyr worldly substaunce, the diuynes make insolible sillogismus and vnperfyte argumêtes, they gather conclusyons, monkes and freers rûne, at rouers ouer all the world, the comyn people are in a mase or a hurle burle redy to make insurrections, and to conclude breuelie there lackes no euyll miserie nor myschefe, neyther hõger, thyrst fellonie, robberie, warre, pestilence, sediciõ, derth, and great scarsytie and lacke of all good thynges. And howe say you do not all these thynges argue and sufficientlie proue that the worlde is almost at an ende?

Cannius. Yea but tell me I praye the of all thes hoole hepe of euyls and miseries whiche greueth the moste?

Poliphemus. Whiche thynkes thou, tell me thy fansie and coniecture?

Cannius. That the Deuyll (god saue vs) maye daunce in thy purse for euer a crosse that thou hast to kepe hî for the.

Poliphe. I pray god I dye and yf thou haue not hyt the nayle vpon the head. Now as chaunceth I come newly from a knotte of good companye where we haue dronke harde euery man for his parte, & I am not behynde with myne, and therfore my wytte is not halfe so freshe as it wyll be, I wyll dyspute of the gospell with the whan I am sobre.

Canni. When shal I se the sobre?

Poli. When I shall be sobre.

Cannius. Whê wyll that be?

Poliph. When thou shalt se me, in the meane season god be with you gentle Cannius and well mot you do.

Cannius. And I wyshe to you a gayne for my parte that thou ware in dede as valiaunt or pusaunt a felowe as thy name soundeth.

Poliphe. And bycause ye shall lose nothynge at my hande with wyshynge I pray god that Cannius maye neuer lacke a good can or a stoope of wine or bere, wherof he had his name.

FINIS

The dialoge of thynges and names

A declaracion of the names

Beatus, is he whiche hathe abundance of al thinges that is good, and is parfyte in all thynges commendable or prayseworthy or to be desyred of a good man. Somtyme it is ta-

ken for fortunate, ryche, ornoble. Bonifaci9, fayre,full of fauor or wellfauored

The parsons names are Beatus and Bonifacius

Beatus. God saue you mayster Boniface.

Bonifaci9. God saue you & god saue you agayne gêtle Beatus. But I wold god bothe we were such, and so in very dede as we be called by name, that is to say thou riche & I fayre.

Beatus. Why do you thynke it nothynge worth at al to haue a goodly glorious name.

Bonifacius. Truely me thynke it is of no valure or lytle good worthe, onles a man haue the thynge itselfe whiche is sygnified by the name.

Beatus. Yea you maye well thynke your pleasure, but I am assured that the most part of all mortall men be of another mynde.

Bonifa. It may wel be I do not denye that they are mortal, but suerly I do not byleue that they are me, which are so beastly mynded.

Bea. Yes good syr and they be men to laye your lyfe, onlesse ye thynke camels and asses do walke about vnder the fygure and forme of men.

Boni. Mary I can soner beleue that then that they be men whiche esteme and passe more vpon the name, then the thynge.

Bea. I graunte in certayne kyndes of thinges moost men had rather haue the thynge then the name, but in many thynges it is otherwyse and cleane cõtrary.

Bo. I can not well tell what ye meane by that.

Bea. And yet the example of this matter is apparant or sufficiently declared in vs two. Thou arte called Bonifacius and thou hast in dede the thynge wherby thou bearest thy name. yet if there were no other remedy but eyther thou must lacke the one or the other, whether had you rather haue a fowle and deformed face or elles for Boniface be called Maleface or horner?

Boni. Beleue me I had rather be called fowle Thersites then haue a monstrous or a deformyed face, whether I haue a good face or no I can not tell.

Bea. And euen so had I for yf I were ryche and there were no remedy but that I must eyther forgoo my rychesse, or my name I had rather be called Irus whiche was a poore beggers name then lacke my ryches.

Boni. I agree to you for asmoch as ye speake the trouth, and as you thynke.

Bea. Iudge all them to be of the same mynde that I am of whiche are indued with helthe or other commodities and qualities appartaynynge to the body.

Boni. That is very trewe.

Bea. Yea but I praye the cõsyder and marke howe many men we se whiche had rather haue the name of a lerned and a holy man, then to be well lerned, vertuous, & holy in dede.

Boni. I knowe a good sorte of suche men for my part.

Bea. Tell me thy fãtasie I pray the do not suche men passe more vpon the name then the thinge?

Boni. Methynke thy do.

Bea. Yf we had a logician here whiche could well and clarkelie defyne what were a kynge, what a bysshoppe, what a magistrate, what a philosopher is, paduêture we shuld find som amõg these iolly felowes whiche had rather haue the name then the thynge.

Boni. Surely & so thynke I. Yf he be a kinge whiche by lawe and equyte regardes more the commoditie of his people then his owne lucre/yf he be a bisshop which alwayes is careful for the lordes flocke cõmytted to his pastorall charge/yf he be a magistrate which frankelie and of good wyll dothe make prouysyon, and dothe all thinge for the comyn welthes sake/and yf he be a phylosopher whiche passynge not vpon the goodes of this worlde, only geueth hym selfe to attayn to a good mynde, and to leade a vertuous lyfe.

Bea. Lo thus ye may perseyue what a nombre of semblable exãples ye may collecte & gether.

Boni. Undouted a great sorte.

Bea. But I pray the tel me wyll you saye that all these are no men.

Boni. Nay I feare rather lest in so sayenge it shulde cost vs our lyues, and so myght we our selues shortelye be no men.

Bea. Yf man be a resonable creature, howe ferre dyffers this from all good reason, that in cõmodities apertayning to the body (for so they deserue rather to be called then goodnes) and in outwarde gyftes whiche dame fortune geues and takes awaye at her pleasure, we had rather haue the thynge then the name, and in the true and only goodnes of the mynd we passe more vpon the name then the thynge.

Boni. So god helpe me it is a corrupte and a preposterours iudgement, yf a man marke and consyder it wel.

Bea. The selfe same reason is in contrarie thinges.

Boni. I wolde gladly knowe what ye meane by that.

Bea. We maye iudge lykewyse the same of the names of thynges to be eschued, and incommodites which was spoken of thynges to be diffyred and cõmodites.

Boni. Nowe I haue considered the thynges well, it apereth to be euen so as ye saye in dede.

Bea. It shulde be more feared of a good prynce to be a tyraunt in dede then to haue the name of a tyraunt. And yf an euyll bysshop be a thefe and a robber, then we shulde not so greatly abhorre and hate the name as the thynge.

Boni. Eyther so it is or so it shuld be.

Bea. Nowe gather you of the rest as I haue done of the prynce & the bysshop.

Boni. Me thynkes I vnderstande this gere wonderouse well.

Bea. Do not all men hate the name of a fole or to be called a moome, a sotte, or an asse?

Boni. Yeas as moche as they do any one thynge.

Bea. And how saye you were not he a starke fole that wold fishe with a goldê bayte, that wolde preferre or esteme glasse better then precious stones, or whiche loues his horse or dogges better then his wyfe and his chyldrê?

Boni. He were as wyse as waltoms calfe, or madder then iacke of Redyng.

Bea. And be not they as wyse whiche not assygned, chosen, nor yet ones appoynted by the magistrates, but vpon theyr owne heed aduenture to runne to the warres for hoope of a lytle gayne, ieoperdynge theyr bodyes and daungerynge theyr soules? Or howe wyse be they which busie thê selfe to get, gleyne, and reepe to gyther, goodes and ryches when they haue a mynde destitute and lackyng all goodness? Are not they also euen as wyse that go gorgyously apparylled, and buyldes goodly sumptuous houses, when theyr myndes are not regarded but neglect fylthye and with all kynde of vyce fowle corrupted? And how wyse are they whiche are carefull diligent and busie, about the helthe of theyr body neglectynge and not myndynge at all theyr soule, in daunger of so many deedly synnes? And fynally to conclude howe wyse be they whiche for a lytle shorte transytorye pleasure of this lyfe deserue euerlastynge tormentes and punyshementes?

Boni. Euen reason forseth me to graunt that they are more then frãtyke and folyshe.

Bea. Yea but althoughe all the whole worlde be full of suche fooles, a man can scaselye fynde one whiche can abyde the name of a foole, and yet they deserue to be called so for asmoche as they hate not the thynge.

Boni. Suerly it is euen so as ye seye.

Bea. Ye knowe also howe the names of a lyar and a thefe are abhorred and hated of all men.

Boni. They are spyteful and odious names, and abhorred of all men, and not withe out good cause why.

Bea. I graunte that, but althoughe to commyt adulterie be a more wycked synne then thefte yet for al that some men reioyse and shewe them selfe glad of that name, whiche wolde be redy by and by to drawe theyr swerdes and fyghte withe a man that wolde or durst call them theues.

Boni. It is true there are many wolde take it euyll as you saye in dede.

Bea. And nowe it is commyn to that poynt that thoughe there are many vnthryftes and spêdals whiche consume theyr substaunce at the wyne and vpon harlottes, and yet so wyllynge to continewe openly that all the worlde wonders at them, yet they wyll be offended and take peper in the noose yf a man shulde call them ruffyans or baudy knaues.

Boni. Suche fellowes thynke they deserue prayse for the thynge, and yet for all that they can not abyde the name dewe to the thinge whiche they deserue.

Bea. There is scarslye any name amonges vs more intollerable or worse can be abydden then to be called a lyar or a lyeng fellowe.

Boni. I haue knowen some or this whiche haue kylled men for suche a spytefull worde as that is.

Bea. Yea yea but wolde god suche hasty fellowes dyd as well abhorre the thinge and hate lienge as well as to be called lyers, was it neuer thy chaunce to be dysceyued of any man whiche borowinge mony of the appoyntynge the a certayne daye to repaye the sayd money and so performyd not his appoyntment nor kept his day?

Boni. Yeas many tymes (god knoweth) and yet hath he sworne many a greuous othe and that not one tyme but many tymes.

Bea. Peraduenture he wolde haue ben so honest as to haue payed it and yf he had had wherwith.

Boni. Naye that is not so for he was able inoughe, but as he thought it better neuer to paye his dettes.

Bea. And what call you this in englyshe, is it not playne lyenge?

Boni. Yes as playne as Dunstable way, there can not be a lowder lye then this is.

Bea. Durste you be so bolde to pulle one of these good detters of yours by the sleue and saye thus to hym, why hast thou dysceyued me so many tymes and broken promyse with me, or to talke to hym in playne englyshe, why doest thou make me so many lyes?

Boni. Why no syr by my trouthe durst I not, excepte I were mynded before to chaûge halfe a dosen drye blowes with hym.

Bea. Dothe not masons Brekelayers, Carpenters, Smythes, Goldsmithes, Taylours, disceyue and disapoynt vs after the lyke maner daylye promysynge to do youre worke suche a daye and suche a daye without any fayle, or further delaye, and yet for all that they parforme not theyr promesse althoughe it stande the neuer somoche vpon hande, or that thou shuldest take neuer so moche profyte by it.

Boni. This is a wonderous and strange vnshamefast knauerye of all that euer I hard of. But and ye speake of breakers of promyse then ye maye reken amongest them lawyers and atturneys at the lawe, which wyl not stycke to promyse or beare you in hande that they wyll be diligent and ernest in the furtheraûce and spedie expedicion of your sute.

Bea. Reken quod he, naye ye maye reken fyve hundreth mennes names besyde these of sundrye faculties and occupacions whiche wyll promyse more by an ynch of a candle then they wyll performe by a whole pounde.

Boni. Why and ye call this lyenge all the worlde is full of suche lyenge.

Bea. Ye se also lykewyse that no man can abyde to be called thefe, and yet all men do not abhorre the thynge so greatly.

Boni. I wolde gladly haue you to declare your mynde in this more playnlye & at large.

Bea. What difference is there betwene hym whiche stealeth thy money forthe of thy cofer, and hym whiche forsweareth and falsely denyeth that whiche thou cõmytted to his custodie to be reserued and safely kept for thy vse only, or to suche tyme as thou arte mynded to call for it agayne.

Boni. There is as they say neyther barrell better hearing, but that in my iudgement he is the falser knaue of the twayne whiche robbes a man that puttes his confidence and trust in hym.

Bea. yea but howe fewe men are there nowe adayes lyuynge whiche are contente to restore agayne that whiche they were put in truste to kepe, or yf they deluer it agayne it is so dymynysshed, gelded, nypped, and pynched, that it is not delyuered whollye, but some thinge cleues in theyr fyngers, that the prouerbe may haue place where the horse walloweth there lyeth some heares.

Boni. I thynke but a fewe that dothe otherwyse.

Bea. And yet for all that there is none of al these that cã abyde it ones to be called thefe, and yet forsothe they hate not the thing so greatly.

Boni. That is as trewe as the gospell.

Bea. Consyder me nowe and marke I beseche the howe the goodes of orphanes, pupylls, wardes, and fatherlesse chyldren be cõmunely ordered and vsed, how wylles and testamentes be executed and performed, how legacyes and bequethes be communelye payde, Naye howe moche cleueth and hangeth fast in the fyngers of the executors or with them that mynyster and intermedle with the goodes of the testatours.

Boni. Many tymes they retayne and kepe in theyr handes all togyther.

Bea. Yea they loue to playe the thefe well inoughe, but they loue nothynge worse then to here of it.

Boni. That is very trewe.

Bea. Howe lytle dyffers he from a thefe whiche boroweth money of one and other and so runneth in dette, with this intent and purpose that yf he maye escape so or fynde suche a crafty colour or a subtyle shyft, he intendeth neuer to paye that he oweth.

Boni. Paraduenture he maye be called warer or more craftier thê a thefe is in dede but no poynt better, for it is hard chosyng of a better where there is neuer a good of them bothe.

Bea. yea but althoughe there be in euery place a great nombre of such makeshyftes and slypper marchauntes yet the starkest knaue of thê all can not abyde to be called thefe.

Boni. God onely knoweth euery mãnes hart and mynd, and therfore they are called of vs men that are runne in dette or fer behynde the hande, but not theues for that soundeth vnswetely and lyke a playne song note.

Bea. What skyllys it howe they be called amõge men yf they be theues afore god. And where you say that god onely knoweth euery mannes hart and mynde, euen so euery man knoweth his owne mynde, whether in his wordes & doynges he entende fraude, couyn, dysceyte, and thefte or no. But what say ye by hym whiche when he oweth more then he is worthe, wyll not stycke to lashe prodygallye and set the cocke vpon the hoope, and yet yf he haue any money at all lefte to spende that a waye vnthryftely, and when he hathe played the parte of a knauyshe spendall in one cytie deludinge and disceyuyng his creditours, ronnes out of this countre and getteth hym to some other good towne, and there sekynge for straûgers and newe acquayntaûce whom he may lykewyse begyle, yea and playeth many suche lyke partes and shameful shiftes. I praye the tell me dothe not suche a greke declare euydentlye by his crafty dealynge and false demeanour, what mynde is he of?

Boni. yes suerly as euydentlye as can be possible. But yet suche felowes are wonte to colour and cloke theyr doynges vnder a craftie pretence.

Bea. With what I beseche the?

Boni. They saye to owe moche and to dyuers persones is communely vsed of great men, yea and of kynges also as well as of them, and therfore they that intende to be of that disposycyon wyll beare out to the harde hedge the porte of a gentylman and soo they wyll be taken and estemed for gentilmen of the commune people.

Bea. A gentylman and why or to what entent and purpose a gentylman?

Boni. It is a straunge thynge to be spoken howe moche they thynke it is mete for a gentylman or a horseman to take vpon hym.

Bea. By what equytie, authoritie, or lawes.

Boni. By none other but by the selfe same lawes that the Admiralles of the sees chalenge a proprietie in all suche thynges as are cast vpon the shoore by wracke, althoughe the ryghte owner come forthe and chalenge his owne goodes. And also by the same lawes that some other men saye all is theyrs what soeuer is founde aboute a thefe or a robber whê he is takê.

Boni. Such lawes as these are the arrantest theues that are myght make them selues.

Bea. yea and ye may be sure they wold gladly wt al theyr harts î their bodies make suche lawes yf they coulde mayntayne them or were of power to se them executed, and they myght haue some thynge to laye for theyr excuse if they could proclayme opyn warre before they fell to robbynge.

Boni. But who gaue that pryuylege rather to a horseman then to a foteman, or more to a gentylman thê to a good yeman.

Bea. The fauoure that is shewed to men of warre, for by suche shyftes and thus they practyse before to be good men of warre that they maye be more redy & hansome to spoyle theyr enemyes when they shall encounter with thê.

Boni. I thynke Pyrhus dyd so exercyse and breake his yonge souldyers to the warres.

Bea. No not Pyrrhus but the Lacedemonians dyd.

Boni. Mary syr hange vp suche practysers or soldyers and theyr practisyng to. But howe come they by the name of horsemen or gentylmen that they vsurpe suche a great prerogatyue?

Bea. Some of them are gentylmê borne and it cometh to them by auncestrie, some bye it by the meanes of maystrys money, and other some gette it by certayne shyftes.

Boni. But maye euery man that wyl and lyst come by it by shyftes?

Bea. Yea why not, euery man maye be a gentylman nowe adayes very well and yf theyr condicions and maners be accordynge.

Boni. What maners or condicions must suche one haue I beseche the?

Bea. Yf he be occupyed aboute no goodnesse, yf he can ruffle it and swashe in his satens and his silkes and go gorgiously apparelled, yf he can ratle in his rynges vpon the fyngers endes, yf he can playe the ruffyan and the horemonger and kepe a gaye hoore gallantlye, yf he be neuer well at ease but when he is playenge at the dyse, yf he be able to matche as moche an vnthryfte as hym selfe with a newe payre of cardes, yf he spende his tyme lyke an epycure vpon bankettinge, sumptuous fare, and all kynde of pleasures, yf he talke of no rascalles nor beggars, but bragge, bost, face, brace, and crake of castelles, towers, and skyrmysshes, and yf all his talke be of the warres and blody battels, and playe the parte of crackinge Thraso throughly, such gaye grekes, lusty brutes and ionkers may take vpon them to be at defyaunce withe whome they wyll and lyst, thoughe the gentylman haue neuer a fote of lande to lyue vpon.

Boni. Call ye them horsmen. Mary syr suche horsemen are wel worthy to ryde vpõ the gallowes, these are gentylmen of the Iebet of all that euer I haue harde of.

Bea. But yet there be not afewe suche in that parte of Germany called Nassen or Hessen.

FINISTrãslated by Edmonde BeckeAnd prynted at Cantorburyin saynt Paules parisheby Johñ Mychell