Notes and Queries, Number 37, July 13, 1850

There is a remarkable feature about these ancient "debentures" which I may perhaps be permitted to notice here, viz., the very beautiful seals of the officers of the royal household and wardrobe which are impressed upon them. They are of the somewhat rare description known as "appliqué;" and at a time when personal seals were at the highest state of artistic developement, those few seals of the clerks of the household which have escaped injury (to which they are particularly exposed) are unrivalled for their clearness of outline, design, delicacy, and beauty of execution.

Allowing for the changes produced by time, I think sufficient analogy may be found between the ancient and modern uses of the words "imprest" and "debenture."

J. BT.

"Imprest" (Vol. ii., p. 40).—D.V.S. will find an illustration of the early application of this word to advances made by the Treasury in the "Rotulus de Prestito" of 12 John, printed by the Record Commission under the careful editorship of Mr. T. Duffus Hardy, whose preface contains a clear definition of its object, and an account of other existing rolls of the same character.

EDWARD FOSS.

Derivation of News.—P.C.S.S. has read with great interest the various observations on the derivation of the word "News" which have appeared in the "NOTES AND QUERIES," and especially those of the learned and ingenious Mr. Hickson. He ventures, however, with all respect, to differ from the opinion expressed by that gentleman in Vol. i., p. 81., to the effect that—

"In English, there is no process known by which a noun plural can be formed from an adjective, without the previous formation of the singular in the same sense."

P.C.S.S. would take the liberty of reminding Mr. H. of the following passage in the Tempest:—

"When that is gone,He shall drink nought but brine, for I'll not show himWhere the quick freshes lie."

Surely, in this instance, the plural noun "freshes" is not formed from any such singular noun as "fresh," but directly from the adjective, which latter does not seem to have been ever used as a singular noun.

While on the subject of "News," P.C.S.S. finds in Pepys' Diary (vol. iii. p. 59.) another application of the word, in the sense of a noun singular, which he does not remember to have seen noticed by others.

"Anon, the coach comes—in the meantime, there coming a news thither, with his horse to come over."

In other parts of the Diary, the word News-book is occasionally employed to signify what is now termed a newspaper, or, more properly, a bulletin. For instance (vol. iii. p. 29.), we find that—

"This News-book, upon Mr. Moore's showing L'Estrange Captain Ferrers's letter, did do my Lord Sandwich great right as to the late victory."

And again (at p. 51.):

"I met this noon with Dr. Barnett, who told me, and I find in the News-book this week, that he posted upon the 'Change,'" &c. &c.

Much has been lately written in the "NOTES AND QUERIES" respecting the "Family of Love." A sect of a similar name existed here in 1641, and a full and not very decent description of their rites and orgies is to be found in a small pamphlet of that date, reprinted in the fourth volume (8vo. ed.) of the Harleian Miscellany.

P.C.S.S.

Origin of Adur (Vol. ii., p. 71.).—A, derived from the same root as Aqua and the French Eau, is a frequent component of the names of rivers: "A-dur, A-run, A-von, A-mon," the adjunct being supposed to express the individual characteristic of the stream. A-dur would then mean the river of oaks, which its course from Horsham Forest through the Weald of Sussex, of which "oak is the weed," would sufficiently justify. It is called in ancient geography Adurnus, and is probably from the same root as the French Adour.

C.

The river Adur, which passes by Shoreham, is the same name as the Adour, a great river in the Western Pyrenees.

This coincidence seems to show that it is neither a Basque word, nor a Saxon. Whether it is a mere expansion of ydwr, the water, in Welch, I cannot pretend to say, but probably it includes it.

We have the Douro in Spain; and the Doire, or Doria, in Piedmont. Pompadour is clearly derived from the above French river, or some other of the same name.

C.B.

Meaning of Steyne (Vol. ii., P. 71.).—Steyne is no doubt stone, and may have reference to the original name of Brighthelm-stone: but what the stone or "steyne" was, I do not conjecture; but it lay or stood probably on that little flat valley now called the "Steyne." It is said that, so late as the time of Elizabeth, the town was encompassed by a high and strong stone wall; but that could have no influence on the name, which, whether derived from Bishop Brighthelm or not, is assuredly of Saxon times. There is a small town not far distant called Steyning, i.e. the meadow of the stone. In my early days, the name was invariably pronounced Brighthamstone.

C.

Sarum and Barum (Vol. ii., p. 21.).—As a conjecture, I would suggest the derivation of Sarum may have been this. Salisbury was as frequently written Sarisbury. The contracted form of this was Sap., the ordinary import of which is the termination of the Latin genitive plural rum. Thus an imperfectly educated clerk would be apt to read Sarum instead of Sarisburia; and the error would pass current, until one reading was accepted for right as much as the other. In other instances we adopt the Law Latin or Law French of mediæval times; as the county of Oxon for Oxfordshire, Salop for Shropshire, &c., and Durham is generally supposed to be French (Duresmm), substituted for the Anglo-Saxon Dunholm, in Latin Dunelmum. I shall perhaps be adding a circumstance of which few readers will be aware, in remarking that the Bishops of Durham, down to the present day, take alternately the Latin and French signatures, Duresm and Dunelm.

J.G.N.

"Epigrams on the Universities" (Vol. ii., p. 88.).—The following extract frown Hartshorne's Book-rarities in the University of Cambridge will fully answer the Query of your Norwich correspondent.

After mentioning, the donation to that University, by George I., of the valuable library of Dr. Moore, Bishop of Ely, which his Majesty had purchased for 6,000 guineas, the author adds,—

"When George I. sent these books to the University, he sent at the time a troop of horse to Oxford, which gave occasion to the following well-known epigram from Dr. Trapp, smart in its way, but not so clever as the answer from Sir William Browne:—

"The King, observing, with judicious eyes,The state of both his Universities,To one he sent a regiment; for why?That learned body wanted loyalty:To th' other he sent books, as well discerningHow much that loyal body wanted learning."The Answer."The King to Oxford sent his troop of horse,For Tories hold no argument but force:With equal care to Cambridge books he sent,For Whigs allow no force but argument.

"The books were received Nov. 19, 20, &c., 1715."

G.A.S.

[J.J. DREDGE, V. (Belgravia), and many other correspondents, have also kindly replied to this Query.]

Dulcarnon (Vol. i., p. 254.)—Urry says nothing, but quotes Speght, and Skene, and Selden.

"Dulcarnon," says Speght, "is a proposition in Euclid (lib. i. theor. 33. prop. 47.), which was found out by Pythagoras after a whole years' study, and much beating of his brain; in thankfulness whereof he sacrificed an ox to the gods, which sacrifice he called Dulcarnon."

Neckam derived it from Dulia quasi sacrificium and carnis.

Skene justly observes that the triumph itself cannot be the point; but the word might get associated with the problem, either considered before its solution, puzzling to Pythagoras, or the demonstration, still difficult to us,—a Pons Asinorum, like the 5th proposition.

Mr. Selden, in his preface to Drayton's Polyolbion, says,—

"I cannot but digresse to admonition of abuse which this learned allusion, in his Troilus, by ignorance hath indured.

"'I am till God mee better mind send,At Dulcarnon, right at my wit's end.'

It's not Neckam, or any else, that can make mee entertaine the least thought of the signification of Dulcarnon to be Pythagorus his sacrifice after his geometricall theorem in finding the square of an orthogonall triangle's sides, or that it is a word of Latine deduction: but, indeed, by easier pronunciation it was made of D'hulkarnyan5, i.e. two-horned which the Mahometan Arabians vie for a root in calculation, meaning Alexander, as that great dictator of knowledge, Joseph Scaliger (with some ancients) wills, but, by warranted opinion of my learned friend Mr. Lydyat, in his Emendatio Temporum, it began in Seleucus Nicanor, XII yeares after Alexander's death. The name was applyed, either because after time that Alexander had persuaded himself to be Jupiter Hammon's sonne, whose statue was with Ram's hornes, both his owne and his successors' coins were stampt with horned images: or else in respect of his II pillars erected in the East as a Nihil ultra6 of his conquest, and some say because hee had in power the Easterne and Westerne World, signified in the two hornes. But howsoever, it well fits the passage, either, as if hee had personated Creseide at the entrance of two wayes, not knowing which to take; in like sense as that of Prodicus his Hercules, Pythagoras his Y., or the Logicians Dilemma expresse; or else, which is the truth of his conceit, that hee was at a nonplus, as the interpretation in his next staffe makes plaine. How many of noble Chaucer's readers never so much as suspect this his short essay of knowledge, transcending the common Rode? And by his treatise of the Astrolabe (which, I dare sweare, was chiefly learned out of Messahalah) it is plaine hee was much acquainted with the mathematiques, and amongst their authors had it."

D'Herbelot says:

"Dhoul (or Dhu) carnun, with the two horns, is the surname of Alexander, that is, of an ancient and fabulous Alexander of the first dynasty of the Persians. 795. Article Sedd, Tagioug and Magioug. 993. Article Khedher. 395. b. 335. b. Fael.

"But 317. Escander, he says, Alexander the Great has the same title secondarily. The truth probably is the reverse, that the fabulous personage was taken from the real conqueror.

"Hofmann, in Seleucus, says that the area of Seleucus is called Terik Dhylkarnain, i.e. Epocha Alexandri Cornigen. Tarik means probably the date of an event."

There can be no doubt that the word in Chaucer is this Arabic word; nor, I think, that Speght's story is really taught by the Arabs, our teachers in mathematics. Whether the application is from Alexander, (they would know nothing of his date with regard to Pythagoras), or merely from two-horned, is doubtful. The latter might possibly mean the ox.

Mr. Halliwell gives a quotation from Stanyhurst, in which it means "dull persons"—an obvious misuse of it for Englishmen, and which Skene fortifies by an A.-S. derivation, but which is clearly not Cressida's meaning, or she would have said, "I am Dulcarnon," not "I am at Dulcarnon;" and so Mrs. Roper.

It may seem difficult what Pandarus can mean:

"Dulcarnon clepid is fleming of wretches,It semith hard, for wretchis wol nought lereFor very slouthe, or othir wilfull tetches,This said is by them that ben't worth two fetches,But ye ben wise."

Whether he means that wretches call it fleming or not, his argument is, "You are not a wretch." Speght's derivation seems to mean, "Quod stultos vertit." Fleamas, A.-S. (Lye), is fuga, fugacio, from flean, to flee. Pandarus, I think, does not mean to give the derivation of the word, but its application of fools, a stumbling-block, or puzzle.

C.B.

Dr. Maginn.—The best account of this most talented but unfortunate man, is given in the Dublin University Mag., vol. xxiii. p. 72. A reprint of this article, with such additional particulars of his numerous and dispersed productions as might be supplied, would form a most acceptable volume.

F.R.A.

America known to the Ancients.—To the list of authorities on this subject given in Vol. i., p. 342., I have the pleasure to add Father Laffiteau; Bossu7, in his Travels through Louisiana; and though last, not least, Acosta, who in his Naturall and Morall Historie of the East and West Indies, translated by E.G. [Grimestone], 1604, 4to., devotes eighty-one pages to a review of the opinions of the ancients on the new world.

The similarity which has been observed to exist between the manners of several American nations, and those of some of the oldest nations on our continent, which seems to demonstrate that this country was not unknown in ancient times, has been traced by Nicholls, in the first part of his Conference with a Theist, in several particulars, viz. burning of the victim in sacrifices, numbering by tens, fighting with bows and arrows, their arts of spinning, weaving, &c. The arguments, multitudinous as they are, adduced by Adair for his hypothesis that the American Indians are descended from the Jews, serve to prove that the known or old world furnished the new one with men. To these may be added the coincidences noticed in "NOTES AND QUERIES;" burning the dead (Vol. i., p. 308.); the art of manufacturing glass (p. 341.); scalping (Vol. ii., p. 78.). Your correspondents will doubtless be able to point out other instances. Besides drinking out of the skulls of their enemies, recorded of the Scythians by Herodotus; and of the savages of Louisiana by Bossu; I beg to mention a remarkable one furnished by Catlin—the sufferings endured by the youths among the Mandans, when admitted into the rank of warriors, reminding us of the probationary exercises which the priests of Mithras forced the candidates for initiation to undergo.

T.J.

Collar of SS. (Vol. ii., p. 89.).—B. will find a great deal about these collars in some interesting papers in the Gentleman's Magazine for 1842, vols. xvii. and xviii., conmunicated by Mr. J.G. Nicholls; and in the Second Series of the Retrospective Review, vol. i. p. 302., and vol. ii. pp. 156. 514. 518. Allow me to add a Query: Who are the persons now privileged to wear these collars? and under what circumstances, and at what dates, was such privilege reduced to its present limitation?

[Greek: Phi.]

Martello Towers (Vol. ii., p. 9.).—A misspelling for Mortella towers. They are named after a tower which commands the entrance to the harbour of St. Fiorenzo, in Corsica; but they are common along the coasts of the Mediterranean. They were built along the low parts of the Sussex and Kent coasts, in consequence of the powerful defence made by Ensign Le Tellier at the Tower of Mortella, with a garrison of 38 men only, on 8th February, 1794, against an attack by sea, made by the Fortitude and Juno, part of Lord Hood's fleet, and by land, made by a detachment of troops under Major-General Dundas. The two ships kept up a fire for two hours and a half without making any material impression, and then hauled out of gun-shot, the Fortitude having lost 6 men killed and 56 wounded, 8 dangerously. The troops were disembarked, and took possession of a height comnanding the tower; and their battering was as unsuccessful, till a hot shot fell and set fire to the bass-junk, with which, to the depth of five feet, the immensely thick parapet wall was lined. This induced the small garrison, of whom two were mortally wounded, to surrender. The tower mounted only one 6 and two 18-pounders, and the carriage of one of the latter had been rendered unserviceable during the cannonade. (See James' Naval History, vol. i. p. 285.) The towers along the English coast extend from Hythe to Seaford, where the last tower is numbered 74, at intervals of about a quarter of a mile, except where the coast is protected by the cliffs. The tower at Seaford is 32 feet high, with a circumference of 136 feet at the base, and gradually tapering to 90 feet at the top. The wall is 6 feet thick at the top next the sea, and 2 feet on the land side. The cost of each tower was very large,—from 15,000l. to 20,000l. I am not aware of any blue book on the subject; blue books were not so much in vogue at the time of their erection, or perhaps a little less would have been spent in these erections, and a little more pains would have been taken to see that they were properly built. Some have been undermined by the sea and washed down already; in others, the facing of brick has crumbled away; and in all the fancied security which the original tower taught us to expect would be probably lessened were the English towers subjected to an attack.

WM. DURRANT COOPER.

"A Frog he would a-wooing go" (Vol. ii., p. 75.).—I know not whether this foolish ballad is worth the notice it has already received, but I can venture to say that the supposed Irish version is but a modern variance from the old ballad which I remember above sixty years, and which began—

"There was a frog lived in a well,Heigho crowdie!And a merry mouse in a mill,With a howdie crowdie, &c. &c.This frog he would a-wooing go,Heigho crowdie!Whether his mother would let him or no,With a howdie crowdie," &c.

Of the rest of the ballad I only remember enough to be able to say that it had little or no resemblance to the version in your last Number.

C.

William of Wykeham (Vol. ii., p. 89.).—1. I believe that there is no better life of this prelate than that by Bishop Lowth.

2. The public records published since he wrote give several further particulars of Wykeham's early career, but a proper notice of them would be too extended for your columns.

3. When W.H.C. recollects that New College, Oxford, the first of the works he names, was not commenced till 1380, and that Wykeham had then enjoyed the revenues of his rich bishopric for nearly fourteen years, and had previously been in possession of many valuable preferments, both lay and ecclesiastical, for fourteen years more, he will find his third question sufficiently answered, and cease to wonder at the accumulation of that wealth which was applied with wise and munificent liberality to such noble and useful objects.

I am not able to answer W.H.C.'s 4th and 5th questions.

[Greek: Phi.]

Execution of Charles I. (Vol. ii., p. 72.).—The late Mr. Rodd had collected several interesting papers on this subject; and from his well-known acquaintance with all matters relating to English history, they are no doubt valuable. Of course they exist. He offered them to the writer of this note, on condition that he would prosecute the inquiry. Other engagements prevented his availng himself of this liberal offer.

J.M.

Woburn Abbey.

Swords (Vol. i., p. 415.).—Swords "ceased to be worn as an article of dress" through the influence of Beau Nash, and were consequently first out of fashion in Bath. "We wear no swords here," says Sir Lucius O'Trigger.

WEDSECUARF.

The Low Window (Vol. ii., p. 55.).—In Bibury Church, Gloucestershire, are several windows of unusual character; and in the chancel is a narrow, low window, called to this day "the Lepers' window," through which, it is concluded, the lepers who knelt outside the building witnessed the elevation of the host at the altar, as well as other functions discharged by the priest during the celebration of mass.

ROBERT SNOW.

Brasichelli's Expurgatory Index (Vol. ii., p. 37.).—Although unable to reply to MR. SANSOM's Query, by pointing out any public library in which he can find the Ratisbon reprint of Brasichelli's Expurgatory Index, I beg to state that I possess it, the Bergomi reprint, and also the original, and that MR. SANSOM is perfectly welcome to a sight of either.

C.J. STEWART

11. King William Street, West Strand.

Discursus Modestus (Vol. i., pp. 142, 205.)—Crakanthorp, in his Defens. Eccl. Angl., cap. vi. p. 27. (A.C.L. edition), refers to Discur. Compen. de Jesuit. Angl., p. 15., and quotes from it the words, "Omnia pro tempore, nihil pro veritate." Is this Discur. Compen. the Discurs. Modest.? and are these words to be found in Watson's Quodlibets? This would fix the identity of the two books. It is curious that the only two references made by Bishop Andrews to the Discurs. Modest. (Respons. ad Apol., pp. 7. and 117.) are to page 13., and both the statements are found in page 81. of Watson. Crakanthorp, however (p. 532.), quotes both the works,—Discurs. Modestus de Jesuit. Anglic., and Watson.

From the many different Latin titles given to this book, it seems certain that it was originally written in English, and that the title was Latinized according to each person's fancy. There is no copy in the Lambeth library.

J.B.

Melancthon's Epigram.—Melancthon, in the epigram translated by RUFUS (Vol. i., p. 422.), seems to have borrowed the idea, or, to use the more expressive term of your "Schoolboy", to leave cabbaged from Martial's epigram, terminating thus:—

"Non possunt nostros multæ Faustine lituræ,Emendare jocos: una litura potest."

Martial, Book iv. 10.

NABOC.

Miscellaneous

NOTES ON BOOKS, SALES, CATALOGUES, &C

Mr. Bohn has just published the second volume of his very useful and complete edition of Junius' Letters. It contains, in addition to a new essay on their authorship, entitled The History and Discovery of Junius, by the editor, Mr. Wade, the Private Letters of Junius addressed to Woodfall; the Letters of Junius to Wilkes; and the Miscellaneous Letters which have been attributed to the same powerful pen. Mr. Wade is satisfied that Sir Philip Francis was Junius; a theory of which it is said, "Se non e vero e ben trovato:" and, if he does not go the length of Sir F. Dwarris in regarding Sir P. Francis, not as the solitary champion, but the most active of the sturdy band of politicians whose views he advocated, he shows that he was known to and assisted by many influential members of his own political party. Some of the most curious points in the Junius history are illustrated by notes by Mr. Bohn himself, who, we have no doubt will find his edition of Junius among the most successful volumes of his Standard Library.

We have received the following Catalogues:—W.S. Lincoln's (Cheltenham House, Westminster Road) Fifty-eighth Catalogue of Cheap Books in various Departments of Literature; W. Straker's (3. Adelaide Street, West Strand) Catalogue No. 4. 1850, Theological Literature, Ancient and Modern; J.G. Bell's (10. Bedford Street, Covent Garden) Catalogue of Interesting and Valuable Autograph Letters and other Documents; John Miller's (43. Chandos Street) Catalogue No. 8. for 1850, of Books Old and New.

BOOKS AND ODD VOLUMES

WANTED TO PURCHASE(In continuation of Lists in former Nos.)

PULLEYNE'S ETYMOLOGICAL COMPENDIUM. BARNABY GOOGE'S POPISH KINGDOM.

Odd Volumes

MILMAN'S EDITION OF GIBBON'S DECLINE AND FALL. Ed. 1838. Vols. 9, 10, 11, 12.

DUKE OF BEDFORD'S CORRESPONDENCE. Vols. 2 and 3.

ARNOLD'S HISTORY OF ROME. Vol. 3.

LE CLERC'S BIBLIOTHEQUE CHOISIE. Vol. 6.

AVELLANADA'S CONTINUATION OF DON QUIXOTE, translated by Barker, 12mo. 1760. Vol. 2.

TOUR THROUGH GREAT BRITAIN, 12mo. 1742. Vols. 1 and 2.

TRISTRAM SHANDY. Vols. 7, 8, 9, and 10.

Letters, stating particulars and lowest price, carriage free to be sent to Mr. BELL, Publisher Of "NOTES AND QUERIES", 186. Fleet Street.

Notices to Correspondents

P.M. is referred to our 27th No., p. 445., where he will learn that the supposed French original of "Not a Drum was heard" was a clever hoax from the ready pen of Father Prout. The date when P.M. read the poem, and not the date it bore, is a point necessary to be established to prove its existence "anterior to the supposed author of that beautiful poem".