The Colloquies of Erasmus, Volume I

Adol. In Truth, by mentioning the Name of Anthony, you have laid open an Ocean of merry Stories; but I'll tell but one, and a short one too, that was told me very lately. A certain Company of jolly Fellows, who are for a short Life, and a merry one, as they call it, were making merry together; among the rest there was one Anthony, and another Person, a noted Fellow for an arch Trick, a second Anthony. And as 'tis the Custom of Philosophers, when they meet together to propound some Questions or other about the Things of Nature, so in this Company a Question was propos'd; Which was the most honourable Part of a Man? One said the Eyes, another said the Heart, another said the Brain, and others said other Parts; and every one alleg'd some Reason for his Assertion. Anthony was bid to speak his Mind, and he gave his Opinion that the Mouth was the most honourable, and gave some Reason for't, I can't tell what. Upon that the other Person, that he might thwart Anthony, made Answer that that was the most honourable Part that we sit upon; and when every one cry'd out, that was absurd, he back'd it with this Reason, that he was commonly accounted the most honourable that was first seated, and that this Honour was commonly done to the Part that he spoke of. They applauded his Opinion, and laughed heartily at it. The Man was mightily pleas'd with his Wit, and Anthony seem'd to have the worst on't. Anthony turn'd the Matter off very well, saying that he had given the prime Honour to the Mouth for no other Reason, but because he knew that the other Man would name some other Part, if it were but out of Envy to thwart him: A few Days after, when they were both invited again to an Entertainment, Anthony going in, finds his Antagonist, talking with some other Persons, while Supper was getting ready, and turning his Arse towards him, lets a great Fart full in his Face. He being in a violent Passion, says to him, Out, you saucy Fellow, where was you drag'd up? At Hogs Norton? Then says Anthony, What, are you angry? If I had saluted you with my Mouth, you would have answer'd me again; but now I salute you with the most honourable Part of the Body, in your own Opinion, you call me saucy Fellow. And so Anthony regain'd the Reputation he had lost. We have every one told our Tale. Now, Mr. Judge, it is your Business to pass Sentence.

Ge. Well, I'll do that, but not before every Man has taken off his Glass, and I'll lead the Way. But talk of the Devil and he'll appear.

Po. Levinus Panagathus brings no bad Luck along with him.

Lev. Well, pray what Diversion has there been among this merry Company?

Po. What should we do but tell merry Stories till you come?

Lev. Well then, I'm come to conclude the Meeting. I desire you all to come to Morrow to eat a Theological Dinner with me.

Ge. You tell us of a melancholy Entertainment indeed.

Lev. That will appear. If you don't confess that it has been more entertaining than your fabulous one, I'll be content to be amerc'd a Supper; there is nothing more diverting than to treat of Trifles in a serious Manner.

THE LYING-IN WOMAN

The ARGUMENT

A Lying-in Woman had rather have a Boy than a Girl. Custom is a grievous Tyrant. A Woman argues that she is as good as her Husband. The Dignity of 'em both are compared. The Tongue is a Woman's best Weapon. The Mother herself ought to be the Nurse. She is not the Mother that bears the Child, but she that nurses it. The very Beasts themselves suckle their own Young. The Nurse's Milk corrupts oftentimes both the Genius and natural Constitution of the Infant. The Souls of some Persons inhabit Bodies ill organized. Cato judges it the principal Part of Felicity, to dwell happily. She is scarce half a Mother that refuses to bring up what she has brought forth. A Mother is so called from [Greek: mê têrein]. And in short, besides the Knowledge of a great many Things in Nature, here are many that occur in Morality.

EUTRAPELUS, FABULLA.

Eu. Honest Fabulla, I am glad to see you; I wish you well.

Fa. I wish you well heartily, Eutrapelus. But what's the Matter more than ordinary, that you that come so seldom to see me, are come now? None of our Family has seen you this three Years.

Eu. I'll tell you, as I chanced to go by the Door, I saw the Knocker (called a Crow) tied up in a white Cloth, I wondered what was the Matter.

Fa. What! are you such a Stranger in this Country, as not to know that that's a Token of a lying-in Woman in that House?

Eu. Why, pray is it not a strange Sight to see a white Crow? But without jesting, I did know very well what was the Matter; but I could not dream, that you that are scarce sixteen, should learn so early the difficult Art of getting Children, which some can scarce attain before they are thirty.

Fa. As you are Eutrapelus by Name, so you are by Nature.

Eu. And so are you too. For Fabulla never wants a Fable. And while I was in a Quandary, Polygamus came by just in the Nick of Time.

Fa. What he that lately buried his tenth Wife?

Eu. The very same, but I believe you don't know that he goes a courting as hotly as if he had lived all his Days a Batchelor. I ask'd him what was the Matter; he told me that in this House the Body of a Woman had been dissever'd. For what great Crime, says I? says he, If what is commonly reported be true, the Mistress of this House attempted to circumcise her Husband, and with that he went away laughing.

Fa. He's a mere Wag.

Eu. I presently ran in a-Doors to congratulate your safe Delivery.

Fa. Congratulate my safe Delivery if you will, Eutrapelus, you may congratulate my happy Delivery, when you shall see him that I have brought forth give a Proof of himself to be an honest Man.

Eu. Indeed, my Fabulla you talk very piously and rationally.

Fa. Nay, I am no Body's Fabulla but Petronius's.

Eu. Indeed you bear Children for Petronius alone, but you don't live for him alone, I believe. But however, I congratulate you upon this, that you have got a Boy.

Fa. But why do you think it better to have a Boy than a Girl?

Eu. Nay, but rather you Petronius's Fabulla (for now I am afraid to call you mine) ought to tell me what Reason you Women have to wish for Boys rather than Girls?

Fa. I don't know what other People's Minds are; at this Time I am glad I have a Boy, because so it pleased God. If it had pleased him best I should have had a Girl, it would have pleased me best too.

Eu. Do you think God has nothing else to do but be a Midwife to Women in Labour?

Fa. Pray, Eutrapelus, what should he do else, but preserve by Propagation, what he has founded by Creation?

Eu, What should he do else good Dame? If he were not God, he'd never be able to do what he has to do. Christiernus King of Denmark, a religious Favourer of the Gospel, is in Exile. Francis, King of France, is a Sojourner in Spain. I can't tell how well he may bear it, but I am sure he is a Man that deserves better Fortune. Charles labours with might and main to inlarge the Territories of his Monarchy. And Ferdinand is mightily taken up about his Affairs in Germany. And the Courtiers every where are almost Famished with Hunger after Money. The very Farmers raise dangerous Commotions, nor are deterred from their Attempts by so many Slaughters of Men, that have been made already. The People are for setting up an Anarchy, and the Church goes to Ruin with dangerous Factions. Christ's seamless Coat is rent asunder on all Sides. God's Vineyard is spoiled by more Boars than one. The Authority of the Clergy with their Tythes, the Dignity of Divines, the Majesty of Monks is in Danger: Confession nods, Vows stagger, the Pope's Constitutions go to decay, the Eucharist is call'd in Question, and Antichrist is expected every Day, and the whole World seems to be in Travail to bring forth I know not what Mischief. In the mean Time the Turks over-run all where-e'er they come, and are ready to invade us and lay all waste, if they succeed in what they are about; and do you ask what God has else to do? I think he should rather see to secure his own Kingdom in Time.

Fa. Perhaps that which Men make the greatest Account of, seems to God of no Moment. But however, if you will, let us let God alone in this Discourse of ours. What is your Reason to think it is happier to bear a Boy than a Girl? It is the Part of a pious Person to think that best which God, who without Controversy is the best Judge, has given.

Eu. And if God should give you but a Cup made of Crystal, would you not give him Thanks for it?

Fa. Yes, I would.

Eu. But what if he should give you one of common Glass, would you give him the like Thanks? But I'm afraid instead of comforting you, by this Discourse, I should make you uneasy.

Fa. Nay, a Fabulla can be in no Danger of being hurt by a Fable. I have lain in now almost a Month, and I am strong enough for a Match at Wrestling.

Eu. Why don't you get out of your Bed then?

Fa. The King has forbid me.

Eu. What King?

Fa. Nay a Tyrant rather.

Eu. What Tyrant prithee?

Fa. I'll tell you in one Syllable. Custom (Mos).

Eu. Alas! How many Things does that Tyrant exact beyond the Bounds of Equity? But let us go on to talk of our Crystal and our common Glass.

Fa. I believe you judge, that a Male is naturally more excellent and strong than a Female.

Eu. I believe they are.

Fa. That is Mens Opinion. But are Men any Thing longer-liv'd than Women? Are they free from Distempers?

Eu. No, but in the general they are stronger.

Fa. But then they themselves are excell'd by Camels in Strength.

Eu. But besides, the Male was created first.

Fa. So was Adam before Christ. Artists use to be most exquisite in their later Performances.

Eu. But God put the Woman under Subjection to the Man.

Fa. It does not follow of Consequence, that he is the better because he commands, he subjects her as a Wife, and not purely as a Woman; and besides that he so puts the Wife under Subjection, that tho' they have each of them Power over the other, he will have the Woman to be obedient to the Man, not as to the more excellent, but to the more fierce Person. Tell me, Eutrapelus, which is the weaker Person, he that yields to another, or he that is yielded to?

Eu. I'll grant you that, if you will explain to me, what Paul meant when he wrote to the Corinthians, that Christ was the Head of the Man, and Man the Head of the Woman; and again, when he said, that a Man was the Image and Glory of God, and a Woman the Glory of the Man.

Fa. Well! I'll resolve you that, if you answer me this Question, Whether or no, it is given to Men alone, to be the Members of Christ?

Eu. God forbid, that is given to all Men and Women too by Faith.

Fa. How comes it about then, that when there is but one Head, it should not be common to all the Members? And besides that, since God made Man in his own Image, whether did he express this Image in the Shape of his Body, or the Endowments of his Mind?

Eu. In the Endowments of his Mind.

Fa. Well, and I pray what have Men in these more excellent than we have? In both Sexes, there are many Drunkennesses, Brawls, Fightings, Murders, Wars, Rapines, and Adulteries.

Eu. But we Men alone fight for our Country.

Fa. And you Men often desert from your Colours, and run away like Cowards; and it is not always for the Sake of your Country, that you leave your Wives and Children, but for the Sake of a little nasty Pay; and, worse than Fencers at the Bear-Garden, you deliver up your Bodies to a slavish Necessity of being killed, or yourselves killing others. And now after all your Boasting of your warlike Prowess, there is none of you all, but if you had once experienced what it is to bring a Child into the World, would rather be placed ten Times in the Front of a Battle, than undergo once what we must so often. An Army does not always fight, and when it does, the whole Army is not always engaged. Such as you are set in the main Body, others are kept for Bodies of Reserve, and some are safely posted in the Rear; and lastly, many save themselves by surrendring, and some by running away. We are obliged to encounter Death, Hand to Hand.

Eu. I have heard these Stories before now; but the Question is, Whether they are true or not?

Fa. Too true.

Eu. Well then, Fabulla, would you have me persuade your Husband never to touch you more? For if so, you'll be secure from that Danger.

Fa. In Truth, there is nothing in the World I am more desirious of, if you were able to effect it.

Eu. If I do persuade him to it, what shall I have for my Pains?

Fa. I'll present you with half a Score dry'd Neats-Tongues.

Eu. I had rather have them than the Tongues of ten Nightingales. Well, I don't dislike the Condition, but we won't make the Bargain obligatory, before we have agreed on the Articles.

Fa. And if you please, you may add any other Article.

Eu. That shall be according as you are in the Mind after your Month is up.

Fa. But why not according as I am in the Mind now?

Eu. Why, I'll tell you, because I am afraid you will not be in the same Mind then; and so you would have double Wages to pay, and I double Work to do, of persuading and dissuading him.

Fa. Well, let it be as you will then. But come on, shew me why the Man is better than the Woman.

Eu. I perceive you have a Mind to engage with me in Discourse, but I think it more adviseable to yield to you at this Time. At another Time I'll attack you when I have furnished myself with Arguments; but not without a Second neither. For where the Tongue is the Weapon that decides the Quarrel; seven Men are scarce able to Deal with one Woman.

Fa. Indeed the Tongue is a Woman's Weapon; but you Men are not without it neither.

Eu. Perhaps so, but where is your little Boy?

Fa. In the next Room.

Eu. What is he doing there, cooking the Pot?

Fa. You Trifler, he's with his Nurse.

Eu. What Nurse do you talk of? Has he any Nurse but his Mother?

Fa. Why not? It is the Fashion.

Eu. You quote the worst Author in the World, Fabulla, the Fashion; 'tis the Fashion to do amiss, to game, to whore, to cheat, to be drunk, and to play the Rake.

Fa. My Friends would have it so; they were of Opinion I ought to favour myself, being young.

Eu. But if Nature gives Strength to conceive, it doubtless gives Strength to give Suck too.

Fa. That may be.

Eu. Prithee tell me, don't you think Mother is a very pretty Name?

Fa. Yes, I do.

Eu. And if such a Thing were possible, would you endure it, that another Woman should be call'd the Mother of your Child?

Fa. By no Means.

Eu. Why then do you voluntarily make another Woman more than half the Mother of what you have brought into the World?

Fa. O fy! Eutrapelus, I don't divide my Son in two, I am intirely his Mother, and no Body in the World else.

Eu. Nay, Fabulla, in this Case Nature herself blames you to your Face. Why is the Earth call'd the Mother of all Things? Is it because she produces only? Nay, much rather, because she nourishes those Things she produces: that which is produced by Water, is fed by Water. There is not a living Creature or a Plant that grows on the Face of the Earth, that the Earth does not feed with its own Moisture. Nor is there any living Creature that does not feed its own Offspring. Owls, Lions, and Vipers, feed their own Young, and does Womankind make her Offspring Offcasts? Pray, what can be more cruel than they are, that turn their Offspring out of Doors for Laziness, not to supply them with Food?

Fa. That you talk of is abominable.

Eu. But Womankind don't abominate it. Is it not a Sort of turning out of Doors, to commit a tender little Infant, yet reaking of the Mother, breathing the very Air of the Mother, imploring the Mother's Aid and Help with its Voice, which they say will affect even a brute Creature, to a Woman perhaps that is neither wholsome in Body, nor honest, who has more Regard to a little Wages, than to your Child?

Fa. But they have made Choice of a wholsome, sound Woman.

Eu. Of this the Doctors are better Judges than yourself. But put the Case, she is as healthful as yourself, and more too; do you think there is no Difference between your little tender Infant's sucking its natural and familiar Milk, and being cherish'd with Warmth it has been accustomed to, and its being forc'd to accustom itself to those of a Stranger? Wheat being sown in a strange Soil, degenerates into Oats or small Wheat. A Vine being transplanted into another Hill, changes its Nature. A Plant when it is pluck'd from its Parent Earth, withers, and as it were dies away, and does in a Manner the same when it is transplanted from its Native Earth.

Fa. Nay, but they say, Plants that have been transplanted and grafted, lose their wild Nature, and produce better Fruit.

Eu. But not as soon as ever they peep out of the Ground, good Madam. There will come a Time, by the Grace of God, when you will send away your young Son from you out of Doors, to be accomplish'd with Learning and undergo harsh Discipline, and which indeed is rather the Province of the Father than of the Mother. But now its tender Age calls for Indulgence. And besides, whereas the Food, according as it is, contributes much to the Health and Strength of the Body, so more especially it is essential to take Care, with what Milk that little, tender, soft Body be season'd. For Horace's Saying takes Place here. Quo semel est imbuta recens servabit odorem Testa diu. What is bred in the Bone, will never out of the Flesh.

Fa. I don't so much concern myself as to his Body, so his Mind be but as I would have it.

Eu. That indeed is piously spoken, but not philosophically.

Fa. Why not?

Eu. Why do you when you shred Herbs, complain your Knife is blunt, and order it to be whetted? Why do you reject a blunt pointed Needle, when that does not deprive you of your Art?

Fa. Art is not wanting, but an unfit Instrument hinders the exerting it.

Eu. Why do they that have much Occasion to use their Eyes, avoid Darnel and Onions?

Fa. Because they hurt the Sight.

Eu. Is it not the Mind that sees?

Fa. It is, for those that are dead see nothing. But what can a Carpenter do with an Ax whose Edge is spoiled?

Eu. Then you do acknowledge the Body is the Organ of the Mind?

Fa. That's plain.

Eu. And you grant that in a vitiated Body the Mind either cannot act at all, or if it does, it is with Inconvenience?

Fa. Very likely.

Eu. Well, I find I have an intelligent Person to deal with; suppose the Soul of a Man was to pass into the Body of a Cock, would it make the same Sound it does now?

Fa. No to be sure.

Eu. What would hinder?

Fa. Because it would want Lips, Teeth, and a Tongue, like to that of a Man. It has neither the Epiglottis, nor the three Cartilages, that are moved by three Muscles, to which Nerves are joined that come from the Brain; nor has it Jaws and Teeth like a Man's.

Eu. What if it should go into the Body of a Swine?

Fa. Then it would grunt like a Swine.

Eu. What if it should pass into the Body of a Camel?

Fa. It would make a Noise like a Camel.

Eu. What if it should pass into the Body of an Ass, as it happened to Apuleius?

Fa. Then I think it would bray as an Ass does.

Eu. Indeed he is a Proof of this, who when he had a Mind to call after Caesar, having contracted his Lips as much as he possibly could, scarce pronounced O, but could by no Means pronounce Caesar. The same Person, when having heard a Story, and that he might not forget it, would have written it, reprehended himself for his foolish Thought, when he beheld his solid Hoofs.

Fa. And he had Cause enough.

Eu. Then it follows that the Soul does not see well thro' purblind Eyes. The Ears hear not clearly when stopped with Filth. The Brain smells not so well when oppressed with Phlegm. And a Member feels not so much when it is benumbed. The Tongue tastes less, when vitiated with ill Humours.

Fa. These Things can't be denied.

Eu. And for no other Cause, but because the Organ is vitiated.

Fa. I believe the same.

Eu. Nor will you deny, I suppose, that sometimes it is vitiated by Food and Drink.

Fa. I'll grant that too, but what signifies that to the Goodness of the Mind?

Eu. As much as Darnel does to a clear Eye-Sight.

Fa. Because it vitiates the Organ.

Eu. Well answer'd. But solve me this Difficulty: Why is it that one understands quicker than another, and has a better Memory; why is one more prone to Anger than another; or is more moderate in his Resentment?

Fa. It proceeds from the Disposition of the Mind.

Eu. That won't do. Whence comes it that one who was formerly of a very ready Wit, and a retentive Memory, becomes afterwards stupid and forgetful, either by a Blow or a Fall, by Sickness or old Age?

Fa. Now you seem to play the Sophister with me.

Eu. Then do you play the Sophistress with me.

Fa. I suppose you would infer, that as the Mind sees and hears by the Eyes and Ears, so by some Organs it also understands, remembers, loves, hates, is provoked and appeas'd?

Eu. Right.

Fa. But pray what are those Organs, and where are they situated?

Eu. As to the Eyes, you see where they are.

Fa. I know well enough where the Ears, and the Nose, and the Palate are; and that the Body is all over sensible of the Touch, unless when some Member is seized with a Numbness.

Eu. When a Foot is cut off, yet the Mind understands.

Fa. It does so, and when a Hand is cut off too.

Eu. A Person that receives a violent Blow on the Temples, or hinder-Part of his Head, falls down like one that is dead, and is unsensible.

Fa. I have sometimes seen that myself.

Eu. Hence it is to be collected, that the Organs of the Will, Understanding, and Memory, are placed within the Skull, being not so crass as the Eyes and Ears, and yet are material, in as much as the most subtile Spirits that we have in the Body are corporeal.

Fa. And can they be vitiated with Meat and Drink too?

Eu. Yes.

Fa. The Brain is a great Way off from the Stomach.

Eu. And so is the Funnel of a Chimney from the Fire-Hearth, yet if you sit upon it you'll feel the Smoke.

Fa. I shan't try that Experiment.

Eu. Well, if you won't believe me, ask the Storks. And so it is of Moment what Spirits, and what Vapours ascend from the Stomach to the Brain, and the Organs of the Mind. For if these are crude or cold they stay in the Stomach.

Fa. Pshaw! You're describing to me an Alembick, in which we distil Simple-Waters.

Eu. You don't guess much amiss. For the Liver, to which the Gall adheres, is the Fire-Place; the Stomach, the Pan; the Scull, the Top of the Still; and if you please, you may call the Nose the Pipe of it. And from this Flux or Reflux of Humours, almost all Manner of Diseases proceed, according as a different Humour falls down after a different Manner, sometimes into the Eyes, sometimes into the Stomach, sometimes into the Shoulders, and sometimes into the Neck, and elsewhere. And that you may understand me the better, why have those that guzzle a great Deal of Wine bad Memories? Why are those that feed upon light Food, not of so heavy a Disposition? Why does Coriander help the Memory? Why does Hellebore purge the Memory? Why does a great Expletion cause an Epilepsy, which at once brings a Stupor upon all the Senses, as in a profound Sleep? In the last Place, as violent Thirst or Want weaken the Strength of Wit or Memory in Boys, so Food eaten immoderately makes Boys dull-headed, if we believe Aristotle; in that the Fire of the Mind is extinguish'd by the heaping on too much Matter.